that society would not be harmed hy so doing.

"This is a proposition many people, after giving full weight to the Committee's arguments and the views of the Churches, still find The great difficulty in accepting.' following arguments appeal

many:

The first is that the homosexual group. and I understand there are such groups, may tend to draw t and corrupt those who are ordinarily bi-sexual by nature and capable of living normal lives, but are led by curiosity, weakness or purely mercenary motives into homosexual society"

While it might be argued that escape from such a group was easier if its activities were not illegal. it was equally arguable that resistance to its attraction was stronger in the first place if its activities illegal as well as immoral.

were

"If we were drawing up a code for the first colonists in the moon. should we make this a criminal offence? I in some doubt am whether we might or might not. "But what we have to decide now is shall we remove the existing prohibition on it, with all the consequences of so doing. Here we come nearest to the correct diagnosis of the present position and the best approach to the future."

The impression had undoubtedly gained ground, and he did not think it was fair to the Wolfenden Com. mittee, that the committee desired conduct legalise homosexual

That gave the sort of impression that they wished to make it easier.

In fact, what they wished to do was to alter the law not expressly to encourage or legalise such practices but to remove them, like adultery and other sins, from the realm of the law.

In my opinion, education and time are needed to bring people along to understand that point of view There is no doubt, from inquiries and researches I have made, many Members and many people outside would misunderstand the removal of the prohibition as implying, if not approval, at least condonation by the legislature of homosexual conduct." (Hear, hears.) MAJORITY VIEW Change Unjustified

Many people outside the influence of religion found no other basis for their notions of righ. and wrong but in the criminal law. Could we be sure that if the support of the criminal law were removed from these people

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they would find any other support? What is clear to me is that there is at present a large section of the population which strongly repudiates homosexual conduct and whose moral sense would be offended by an alteration, of the law seeming to imply approval or tolerance of what' they regard as a great social evil.

Therefore the .considerations I have indicated satisfy the Government that it would not be justified, on the basis of opinions expressed so far, in proposing legislation to carry out the recommendations of the Committee." There were sporadic cries of agreement.

HUMAN SUFFERING Scope for Blackmail

Much human suffering derived from the operation of the present law. It provided scope for the blackmailer

cases

It often, resulted in prison sentences which made the victim's last state worse than his first. His per'sonal experience of visiting prisons showed how unsuitable in many for a prison sentence was redemption of a person of this sort. He hoped the debate would do something to educate opinion towards the type of reform which might be accepted. In this field we needed more knowledge. We knew little of the cause or extent of homosexual conduct and could not judge adequately the consequences of any action that might be taken.

The committee had drawn attention to the need for research and he was hopeful of meeting this need subject to the needs of other forms of research.

REDEMPTION OF PROSTITUTES

FEW OPPORTUNITIES Mr Butler dealt next with prostitution All would agree that this was a trade they would like this country to be without. Each girl who became a prostitute. with the entailed degradation and misery, was a reproach to our society

•

The Committee was in no doubt that nowadays prostitution was a of life deliberately chosen way because it suited a particular woman's personality. freed her from irksome routine and gave more earnings.

A woman no longer adopted that way of life because there was no other open to her and the oppor tunities for rescue were consequently

mattachine REVIEW

limited.

We have a duty, particularly to the young, to bring every means of redemption to bear before prostitution becomes a settled habit. The law ought as far as possible to assist towards this end, although it cannot itself achieve it."

WARNINGS AND ADVICE Scottish Example

If they were warned at an early stage, and we had a lot to learn from Scottish practice in this, and put in touch with one of the voluntary organisations, they might turn back before accepting prostitution as a settled way of life.

If despite warnings and advice the girl continued on this path and had to be brought before the court. everything possible should be done to see she received from the probation service and other social services all the assistance, they could provide.

She should be given every encouragement and practical help to abandon the life before she got accusWe propose to practomed to it. tise every art of redemption we can in dealing with this problem."

The committee had recommended that the law relating to street offences should be reformulated to eliminate the requirement to establish annoyance. He believed their finding should be accepted.

Stressing the need to clean the streets he said: "I don't believe this would be hypocrisy or simply keeping up appearances.

SHAME OF STREETS

POLICE DIFFICULTY

"I have been impressed by the shame which decent people feel at the state of streets in the West End, Paddington and Stepney, to take only three areas, and their fear for the well-being of young people who live in or pass through these streets."

It was possible for the police to do something, but a police drive could do no more than move on the trouble. In every case it bobbed up elsewhere.

The situation was far more serious in the areas he had mentioned and around some of the main railway stations in London than in any other There werepart of the country manifestations in some other pig cities but not to the same extent publicly.

The Government had been preparBefore introducing ing legislation.

a Bill it would like to be fortified by the opinions of the House. He nad

looked at the Committee's recom mendations in the hope of find.ng some way to improve on them but so far had not succeeded.

It was essential to find means of reconciling the ethical or moral approach with the practical If the Committee's findings were accepted many people would feel it was inequitable that the woman should be punished and the man should not

He was predisposed to sympathise with that point of view. Many thought the present law relating to street offences was archaic. harsh and unjust to women.

was useless to create new offences which could not be enforced. It would be worse than useless to redefine the law about soliciting in terms which would add to the difficulties of the police

Any new. definition must satisfy two main points. 'It must not expose the innocent woman who behaves indiscreetly to arrest and it must not impose on the police an impossible burden of proof.

"To protect the innocent woman it must be an ingredient of the offence either that she is a known prostitute or that she has solicited with a degree' of persistence indicating a habit or If that does not happen way of life

it would be possible for an innocent woman making a rendezvous with a man to be caught.

"In any definition the woman must be so described that the police and courts can, perform their duty it of identification and finally, necessary, of conviction without any shadow of doubt." CONVICTION BASIS Mr. Silverman's Points

Mr. SILVERMAN (Soc. Nelson and Colne) suggested that such a definition involved the certainty that in a disputed case the record of the defendant would be part of the evidence on which the prosecuHow tion relied for a conviction. can we morally justify treating as a crime the sale of a thing without treating the buying of it also as a crime?

Mr BUTLER agreed that the first question raised a serious point. If a Bill were considered Mr. Silverman could ventilate the matter.

On the other point Mr. Butler observed: "On what evidence is the man to be guilty? With the possible exception of the kerb-crawler, who drives about in a car for the purpose, the man does not normally loiter. He has no need to do so.

"He appears once on the scene and is gone. In the rare cases where